Subs versus Dubs

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Subs versus Dubs

Post  Rainday on Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:08 am

*sigh* *sigh* *sigh* Deep breathes... Deep breathes...

I see I was a little ignored and that's a little bit of my pet pevs, so I'm gonna handle this in a interesting way since those post don't involve anything at all with Sailor moon, I'm "moving" them to a new topic. One where all can be discussed freely... Just keep in mind, these discussions never, ever, end, well. They are deeply rooted and people can be quite stubborn, and often end with hurt feelings and grudges. I would just like you to listen to that if anything. Also, I will not take sides in this despite any opinion at all I may have, however if this goes overboard, then it will be settled.
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Re: Subs versus Dubs

Post  Rainday on Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:12 am

Kamenrider wrote:but why settle for a crappy english dub when there exists such things as fansubs and the like

DoubleEdged wrote:
Kamenrider wrote:but why settle for a crappy english dub when there exists such things as fansubs and the like
No one's stopping you. No one's judging you for that fact. How about you at least have the decency to accept that some people enjoy it.

creativerealms wrote:
Kamenrider wrote:but why settle for a crappy english dub when there exists such things as fansubs and the like

And why settle for a fan sub when the show is going to be simucasted in America so it will have an official sub. A simucast has already been announced which means official subs from day one.

Anyway most dubs at least these days are not horrible. Most are pretty good. And I have wanted Sailor Moon to have an uncut good dub for over ten years now. It looks like it will never happen with the original anime but with the new anime it's a whole new ballgame. have waited too long for Sailor Moon to get a good dub and that day may finally be happening.

And yeah it's a matter of opinion. I prefer dubs over subs because reading TV shows does not feel right. I will watch subs the the is A not dubbed or if say the dub is completely horrible but in my experience most dubs are pretty equal in quality to the Japanese version in which case I prefer the Dub.

from what I understand it's following the manga closer so there will be less monsters of the day. Which sucks but most of them were used to keep the series lasting longer so the anime did not get too far ahead of the manga.

vesago_x wrote:
creativerealms wrote:in my experience most dubs are pretty equal in quality to the Japanese version in which case I prefer the Dub.

You didn't watch english-dubbed anime in the 90's, did you? I watched shitty dubs until the internet came around. Then, I switched to fansubs and never looked back. Although, I will admit that I've seen so many horrible dubs, I probably wouldn't be able to recognize a good english dub if I saw one.

DoubleEdged wrote:
vesago_x wrote:
creativerealms wrote:in my experience most dubs are pretty equal in quality to the Japanese version in which case I prefer the Dub.

You didn't watch english-dubbed anime in the 90's, did you? I watched shitty dubs until the internet came around. Then, I switched to fansubs and never looked back. Although, I will admit that I've seen so many horrible dubs, I probably wouldn't be able to recognize a good english dub if I saw one.

You're still in the 90's, aren't you?
See, I can use those generalizations too.

It's been two frakking DECADES. 4KIDS is DEAD. D-E-A-D. The FEW titles that get picked up and edited for children's broadcasting television aren't all that extremely outrageous anymore (except maybe DBZKai. WTF at Mr. Popo's skin color?). Yet for some reason, some people think it's alright to look down on others just because they decide they want to watch their anime with an English voice track.

You think it's so superior, yet I must question- if you were to watch Black Lagoon based on this scene alone, what would you pick?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9F5p1_hR2Ws
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKwaPSkjXp0#t=02m19s

Now I'm going to say it again. I don't care whether you prefer subs to dubs and whatnot. Hell, I'll probably be watching all of Total Eclipse this season, meaning I'll have to watch subtitled versions, until the low chance it gets picked up over here (and if it's FUNimation, I might actually buy it, since they're one of the few reasonable distributors today). Just don't be getting on some damn high horse. We're all anime fans. If you demean people for stuff like this, you desecrate what it means to be a fan. (And if you ONLY watch fansubs, you'll NEVER support the anime industry)

DoubleEdged wrote:Okay, that probably got a little more personal than it should have, but there is still one more thing-

Baseless insults of "crappy dubs," especially when there isn't even one for said title, are just as insulting. You want to be pessimistic in that regard? Fine. I don't care. It's your preference. But knock it off with the blanket statements that you goddamn know aren't true.
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Re: Subs versus Dubs

Post  Kamenrider on Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:00 am

I never intended it as an insult. if you want a dub like you said it's your good right, but in my experiences a dub can almost never match the original except for the cases of gundam universal century shows like unicorn.

and yes i should have used a different way to voice it.

and if there's gonna be an official dub all the better

oh and i do buy anime's i've got a lot of them. box i waited 3 years for until they released it after first seeing it on canal + years ago.
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Re: Subs versus Dubs

Post  vesago_x on Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:47 am

Kamenrider wrote:I never intended it as an insult. if you want a dub like you said it's your good right, but in my experiences a dub can almost never match the original.

Yeah, this is what I was trying to say, too. If you like dubbed anime, that is fine. I've got no problem with that. I never meant to demean anyone or act like I was "on a high horse." It is just that in my opinion, anything that is "dubbed" can almost never match the quality of the original.
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Re: Subs versus Dubs

Post  creativerealms on Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:53 pm

Sorry about that I get a bit dramatic in the whole dub vs sub argument. While I am strongly pro dub I actually personally believe the argument no longer has merit. I believe that the quality of dubs as a whole has improved so much since the Eighties and Nineties. That they are now equal in quality to the Japanese version most of the time. It comes down to personal preference which is better now.

Generally I choose dubs because reading a TV show feels unnatural to me. It would be like listening to a book on tape it's just not how it's suppose to be experienced. Besides reading on a TV set is bad for the eyes and my eye sight is bad enough as it is without doing things that will make it worse.

Now in the case of Sailor Moon well I have been hoping for a new uncut and good sailor moon dub since like 2000. I find the dub it does have to be a disgrace that that it needs a better one. To me bad dubs are a reason for a show to be re dubbed later and fixed and not a reason to give up on dubs completely.

Hell the show with my most hated dub of all time also has one of my top five favorite dubs of all times which shows even a show that is butchered in English can be saved and resurrected ion English in all it's glory. Oh I'm talking One Piece.
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Re: Subs versus Dubs

Post  Kamenrider on Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:06 pm

fair enough mate. I understand what your saying but dubs have the problem of mouths moving or not while they're still talking or have stopped already which i find a big downer
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Re: Subs versus Dubs

Post  creativerealms on Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:03 pm

That might have been a problem once but these days matching the lip movements is not a problem with dubs. A lot of recent dubs I have seen actually even match the lip movements better then the Japanese version. Anyway the digital era has made matching the lip movements much easier then it use to be. The days of Godzilla and Speed racer are long over.
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Re: Subs versus Dubs

Post  Kamenrider on Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:04 am

hehe well only good dubs i've seen so far go to gundam unicorn and 00. age may have good ones but haven't seen anything dubbed of that
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Re: Subs versus Dubs

Post  Cheri Lapin on Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:15 am

Darn. And here I thought this thread would be about submissives being sent to battle robots or something.
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Re: Subs versus Dubs

Post  Bellchan on Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:58 am

I'm on the side of "Dubs have come a long way since the 90s" edge of the argument. When the wifey and I are working on writing and art projects we cannot watch with subtitles and so we usually prefer dubs. Not to say we don't watch our ADV Sailor Moon Uncut DVDs in Japanese... it's just a hassle to budget time for it.

We've actually got to the point where we actively prefer the dubs. I just bought the Blu-Ray version of Persona 4 The Animation knowing that the Blu-Ray has English Only Audio (DVD has subs too) because I'd rather have the voice actors from the video game over the Japanese audio.

It's a personal opinion but it really doesn't distract from the experience... plus you'd be surprised to see how much love goes in to these productions, particularly when certain people are involved. Johnny Yong Bosch, Crispin Freeman, Mary Elizabeth McGlynn, Christopher Sabat and Kyle Hebert are just a short list of voice actor/producer/directors in the industry who CARE about the product and go well beyond their means for it. Heck, Mary Elizabeth is more or less single-handedly takes care of the Silent Hill franchise and has sung all of the themesongs since SH3.

You miss a lot through purity. In the same way that there are jokes which only make sense to the original audio (La-Li-Lo-Le-Lu from Metal Gear only makes sense in the Japanese version of the game, for instance) there are some great moments in the dubs. In Haruhi there is a superb bit of ad-libbing from Wendee Lee. Haruhi is tricking the computer club in to giving her a high power computer and uses the club mascot Mikuru to say that the club members were doing perverted things to her. Obviously Japan has far different ideals on purity and perversion. In the dub Wendee gleefully yelled that "All you geeks ganged up on her and" BLEEP SOUND EFFECT "her."

To be honest I am surprised that got in, but my shock (as well as my familiarity with the sub. Haruhi is one of my favorite shows) caused me to keel over laughing. She, and the rest of the group, also have a great time with the omake series changing the jokes mercilessly... but in a loving way.

Crispin Freeman is another good one here. This man STUDIES anime. He gives lectures at conventions about the creation and writing of them and the mythos behind various works he has been on. He brings that knowledge with him to his interpretation of the character and it really works.

I find that whether sub or dub it all depends on the enthusiasm and talent of the people involved. Sometimes that means you get yourself two great versions of something. Heaven knows I'd take Wakamoto in any role over ANY American voice actor... but heavens if I wouldn't try to see anyone try to match that ham.

Plus... why live in a life where there's only Coca-Cola. Sometimes you're just in the mood for Pepsi.
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Re: Subs versus Dubs

Post  Era Univerba on Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:38 am

I prefer to hear things in the language the characters would be speaking, even though personally I only speak English. Thus, I heavily lean toward subs. And this doesn't only apply to cartoons, but live action films as well; I can't stand watching Life is Beautiful when it's dubbed.

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Re: Subs versus Dubs

Post  rick404 on Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:37 am

I don't want to get to deep on this since I am unwavering Pro-Sub. There have been some good (English) dubs (Cowboy Bebop for one) but the vast majority are so very poor and overwhelming it seems by the same people. Given the rise of anime in pop culture in the early to mid 2000's you would think we could get better but it never happened. The voice styles, cadences, characters making noise during pauses...It ruins it for me.

I actually enjoy hearing the Japanese and they actually put some acting into the roles - not just read text in a flat silly voice.

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Re: Subs versus Dubs

Post  tilltherewas1 on Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:39 pm

Dub all the way for me
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Re: Subs versus Dubs

Post  DrgnmastrAlex on Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:14 pm

Eh...the nuances of language in a series.... a small reason why I'm majoring in English lit and writing. Razz

Yeah, there's a fair amount of bad dubs, but some of them I kind of hold dear, since they honestly try (and hit some marks). For all its editing, some of the old episodes of Yugioh are alright to me, as well as Pokemon. A few dubs I think did well are Cowboy Bebop (of course), Outlaw Star, G Gundam (but that's really the only Gundam series I like, and its goofy in the first place. XD ), Ah My Goddess, Trigun, Hellsing, Fate/Stay Night (although there were a few voices in that one that were sort of irritating), and....actually, the Gurren Lagann dub wasn't bad either. Even Kamina's VA, though I wasn't fond of his rendition, was still good.

For the most part, though, I am a fan of subs, though I will pull for dub auditions of fans in order to get a good feel for them. Sometimes you have to reach into obscurity for something noteworthy.
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Re: Subs versus Dubs

Post  madoka on Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:22 pm

I roll ether way, so long as said sub/dub is well made then I don't have any issues. Only gripes I have would be if the company importing the work decides to censor stuff, edit the artwork etc, such as what companies like 4kids did back in the day. In the end I don't care if its a sub or dub, I'm just there for the story.
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